phantasmemes | How's The Game? #2

PhanRift was initially planned out as a relatively small, slow-paced game and it's grown very much beyond our initial plans since inception. This is, of course, great because you guys are great and it's always great to see people enjoying PhanRift!

With an increased playerbase unfortunately comes the increased possibility of player conflict or simply running into folks you'd rather not play with. To that end, we're strongly considering implamenting a system of mandatory opt-out posts a la the nice folks over at Starhue Valley (HI OPAL I LOVE YOU!!!!!).

We understand this might sound a little YIKES and extreme, but both the folks at Starhue and some of our players on Plurk have expressed appreciation for and interest in this system so we're considering implementing it or something similar here at PhanRift. We understand it's a big change however, so we'd like to have some discussion with you guys before we go forward with it!

I've hung out on a writing forum where member-requested, mod-enforced OOC no-contact orders are an occasionally-invoked thing, and I think they're a mixed blessing. They're a shortcut for the extremely challenging process of dispute resolution, to be sure, but they leave the original dispute's bad feelings in place, curdling, with no way ever to be resolved. In the one case where one was requested against me, the other party basically left the forum shortly thereafter; if they'd still been active, and we'd each had to pay careful attention to avoiding each other's threads, and if we'd had any friends in common, I might have walked away rather than deal with the frustration.

Consider also how no-contact orders would interact with the Discord chat. I don't see that working very well.

As for IC-only no-contact orders, forgive my newbishness but what would be the point?

I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding about what the opt-out posts would cover!

They would essentially boil down to a "Comment here if you don't want to play with me" entry on your journal where people could do just that if they felt they had reason to now want to thread with you. They would not be a replacement for OOC communication and problem resolution and we would continue to encourage players to come to us if they were having issues.

As for IC-only no-contact orders – I'm not quite sure what you mean? Could you elaborate a bit?

Basically what you just said. A statement that you don't want someone to tag you and you won't tag them. I don't understand what problem that solves. If you dislike interacting with someone so strongly that you need to get a restraining order against their character, isn't it likely that the problem is personal?

Not necessarily!

There's a lot of instances where someone might want to opt out of tagging someone that don't always come down to personally butting heads with that person. Sometimes your RP styles won't mesh, or you might not get along with them OOCly in a way that doesn't need to be brought to us in a mod capacity. Sometimes it's nothing to do with the player at all and it might just be that character in particular you would rather not play with, for whatever reason.

Not everyone in the game is going to get along with everyone else in the game and that's fine! The opt-out posts are a system specifically from keeping instances like that from festering and eventually escalating to a point where they do require mod intervention.

If you think they'll be helpful, I have no objection to them.

To add on to the examples Claire listed, there's also the case where there's something about the character that you can't handle as a player - plenty of characters in PhanRift come with potential content warnings (for abuse and violence in particular), either due to their canons or from being CRAUs from murdergames. Opt-out posts provide people who are potentially harmed by that kind of content (abuse survivors etc) a way to quietly avoid things that are triggering to them without outing themselves.

Since opt-out is no questions asked, a lot of people are more comfortable with being able to do that.

Ah! OK, that makes sense to me now.

Meredith “is this Evangelion?” Baker for example. And as another example, the Airlocked! cast.

I do not blame anyone in the slightest for not wanting to deal with her setting’s BS.

Edited 2018-08-12 01:22 (UTC)

This sounds like a good idea to me!

I'm honestly a little unsure on the idea of them being mandatory. I can definitely understand the need for them, but them being mandatory...I'm honestly not sure I can words it, but yeah. I know it's probably just me, but I figured I'd mention it since not saying something isn't helping nobody.

Noted and a hundred percent understood! We understood people might be a bit unsure, which is why we wanted to discuss it with you guys before going forward.

I thought about this some more and have a few ideas on why this might be bothering me. Enough that I'm really firmly against making them mandatory. They're useful for some, but for me it just seems like a huge anxiety inducing thing to have to have around. This seems really extreme and I'm not comfortable with it.

Again, noted! We'd like to hear some more of your thoughts if you're comfortable sharing them (either in public or by hitting us up more private, up to you!) so we know what the potential drawbacks of this system are before it gets put into place.

I'd be okay with talking about it in private with you modling peeps. It might be easier for one of you to set it up since I'm currently in Singapore and mobile Discord is a strange and unknown beast to me.

No problem at all! I'll set a room up for us right now.

That does seem both YIKES and extreme, ngl. I don't know if I can words it right, but it seems like a huge step to take for a minor problem.

Noted and appreciated!

What is mostly, thankfully, a minor problem for the majority of our players however could be something that turns the game into a really unpleasant or outright unsafe place for others. The general idea behind this system is to give all players an avenue to communicate more openly with each other, even if that communication is, unfortunately, a request for some space away from each other in RP.

I am 1000% for this!

Maybe emphasizing from the get-go that this could help people with all kinds of situations would be helpful! For instance, some people might want to avoid spoilers, while other people might want to avoid something triggery. Not to mention, there are some people who generally associate negative and painful experiences with another player altogether.

Of course, I could be influenced by my own, personal dealings with PTSD, thus feeling a little more open to things of this nature?

Given these things usually call for screened comments, however, I see nothing at all wrong with it. It's the same concept as being able to PM or DM someone, but with a dedicated location for someone to keep up with any and all who have requested a lack of IC interactions. If anyone is at all like me, you tend you need something like that!

Not to mention, it might even feel less "sudden" than a random PM or DM out of nowhere, and thus less awkward and/or with less of a potential for hurt feelings. There's absolutely no way to please everyone, but I think this could have the potential to help the majority of folks, in the end, in some way - including both people who would opt-in, as well as those who could avoid making someone incredibly uncomfortable and not even be aware of it.

Noted!

You've hit the nail on the head in terms of why we wanted to introduce this system. We're hoping that by opening that extra avenue of communication between players it will take away a little of the anxiety factor when it comes to this sort of thing.

I'm a little worried it might cause tension between players, but also as someone who has some canons I just wouldn't want to interact with for personal reasons, I do get the reason why. But I think it probably has too much of a risk for misunderstanding/misinterpretation and could just make some people really anxious? If it's something that would be done, I think it'd have to be done really carefully to work.

Totally heard and understood. When I first heard about this system in Starhue, I was a little UH?! about it myself! But we've also seen the benefits they've had and we're going to be monitoring the situation pretty closely. We'll be very strongly encouraging players to approach us if people abuse this system and we'll be taking it very seriously if we find that people are.

After reading the other players' thoughts and the subsequent explanations and then giving it some thought myself, I'm still a little uneasy/uncertain about these, particularly about making them mandatory. I understand making them a uniform requirement for the game will ease the sense of peer pressure about them, since if everyone has them there's no individual decision to be made and so players just have to live with them or not.

They're a popular enough idea and the reasoning for having them is clear and compelling enough that I encourage individual players to make them if they want them and feel comfortable. However, the idea of requiring them made me instantly uncomfortable, and it's clear I'm not the only one. I have never myself experienced bullying or abuse in my DWRP communities, either anonymously or not, nor have I ever been offended or upset by a person straight-up asking me not to RP with them for any reason (or an unstated reason); I actually find it more upsetting not knowing if people want me to back off or not.

However, I think this is something that should be up to each player. Some people will be more anxious leaving themselves open to being shut out of interactions without knowing why and choose not to make an opt-out post; some people will be more anxious asking people to please step back and encourage the creation and use of these opt-outs by example and by reasoning. I have a feeling this will be a popular idea and a lot of the playerbase WILL engage in opt-out posts, the same way impressions/permissions are popular (and yes, some permissions posts here are mandatory, but those are with clear reasoning). They're like memes; a good idea catches on.

But, ultimately, I don't think these opt-out posts, no matter how well-intentioned, are something the game itself should mandate.

**Also, a lot of people already HAVE opt-out clauses on their permissions posts, and I think most of them ask for no reasoning to be given! I feel like it's kind of like how all Homestucks used to have color opt-out posts on their journals. Encouraged and widely used, enough that it's not weird for other people to pick it up, but not enforced.

Edited 2018-08-16 14:21 (UTC)

I am not a fan of this for the purpose of players avoiding each other, agreeing with the dispute-resolution issue; an equivalent to this was implemented at older games I was in, and unintentionally served as a way to allow players to shove others out of the game without running afoul of actual rules.

However, I do see the value in being able to avoid characters whose backgrounds have triggering content, and/or at least being able to say "plz avoid XYZ topic around me as we interact, mmm'kay?"

I doubt the former is a problem with the current community, but...

How's The Game? #2

How's The Game?

MANDATORY OPT-OUT POSTS

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